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Today we're kicking off the Assembly!

gnu.tools

This is a new umbrella for GNU people seeking transparent decision-making and built around consensus. It's the result of a decade of struggle to make inclusive, transparent, and community-driven.

contributors: consider joining!

activists: help us spread the word!

I sometimes feel that a decade (or more¹!) was lost in internal discussions that had little effect, and during which “outsiders” would think GNU = FSF = RMS.

But I’m happy we’re now looking forward and contributing to the future of . A real milestone!

¹ wingolog.org/archives/2009/12/

@civodul

As assembly of GNUs... I suppose you don't want to call it a herd? ;)

@emacsen An assembly has structure and has a purpose, unlike a herd. :-)

@civodul Would be nice to elaborate the relationship of the gnu assembly with the gnu project somewhere on the website. For now its not that clear and it looks like a fork of gnu project.

@civodul Thank you for taking that initiative! This is a courageous decision :).

I’m a long term GNU enthusiast but sadly not really a contributor, since I don’t know how to code. I always to get more involved with the project thought, and I think I will take that as an opportunity ^_^.

@civodul
> I sometimes feel that a decade (or more¹!) was lost in internal discussions that had little effect, and during which “outsiders” would think GNU = FSF = RMS.

As an outsider, I didn't think that (for other outsiders, ymmv). I did know that RMS = GNU/FSF. What should I think Ludovic = is?
@civodul This should be a good test of the idea that most of the people who come into communities complaining about identitarian issues don't actually contribute much to the actual output of that community.

@civodul now that is serendipity timeing.

This looks like a tech/process based attempt at grassroots governance. Must say straight out, in my expirence, I have seen many process lead models like this, and they have NEVER worked.

Though it is always a good thing to try iteration. And good to contrast this to the humane/serendipity based aproch that we have been working on at the #omn

I like it.

@civodul
> a decade of struggle to make #GNU transparent

In the spirit of transparency, maybe the 'People' link on this new website should mention their corporate affiliations?
@wyatwerp @civodul This. RMS might be by todays standards controversial but you cant say that he is opportunistic. This is last line of defense against big corporations. You might try to polish is and put big inclusive sticker over, but it wont help the cause.

@wyatwerp @civodul honest question: do you know any of those affiliations? Would you care to share?

@rysiek @wyatwerp A couple of those listed at gnu.tools/en/people/ are toolchain developers employed by Red Hat (not a secret). The rest is pretty diverse, probably mostly volunteers.

See also gnu.tools/en/blog/2021/04/answ .

@civodul I strongly disagree with this decision. If you're unhappy with the way GNU is governed, you should be trying to reform GNU from within.

Forking GNU is not the answer.

I want everyone to know:

gnu.tools/ is not the GNU project, and some of the people in it were on that list opposing RMS recently.

We need unity within GNU. I *urge* everyone not to join in on gnu.tools, it is a mutiny and a coup. We all need to show the *real* GNU project on gnu.org our full support!

@libreleah @civodul changing an organization from within is the way to go when there's a chance that it may actually work; this cannot happen with the FSF as roughly 95% of its members are white cis males, and we've seen in the recent times that a majority of them are strong opponents of inclusivity.

This initiative will not split the community; it is already split. It can only weaken Stallman's power on free software development, something I find hugely positive.

@rbd @civodul I'm a 3-years-post-op femme non-binary trans person (though I use she/her pronouns in public, and mostly present female), am very queer, enjoy My Little Pony and... yeah.

Don't give me that "cis white male" nonsense. And I talk to a lot of those people, they accept me just fine.

As for RMS:
stallmansupport.org/
libreboot.org/news/rms.html

@libreleah @rbd @civodul Leah, you seem to prefer authoritarian, top-down rule. I assume this is why you removed, again, everyone's access from Libreboot without asking them. When you see people organising themselves, you call it a coup.

All we're doing is going our own way. We have no obligation or duty to obey the equations RMS = FSF = GNU. His leadership has been bad and has weakened the other two parts of that proposed equation. GNU was already fragmented. We're just making it official.

@JordiGH @rbd @civodul

i see nothing wrong with rms's leadership

my concern is they will actually create real infrastructure, with development done outside of gnu.org

so then you have 2 gnu projects, and a completely splintered community. to my mind, this can only hurt the free software movement.

think: distros that have to integrate everything. which side do they choose?

PS: and all i did in lb is chuck out 2 bad devs who were leading the project in a bad direction

@libreleah @JordiGH @rbd @civodul that isn't where open source is better than proprietary software. It's not supposed to be centralized development, a bunch of people in a faceless building who make software.

Its people! People who speak dofferent languages, people who have different beliefs, people who come in and discuss software decisions. By the fsf bringing back stallman literally without asking anyone, it goes directly in the face of free software.

@libreleah @JordiGH @rbd @civodul So what if they create real infrastructure? As long as they are using free software licenses (which I suspect they will stick with. It would be very hard to avoid anyways given the hereditary nature of the GPL), this creates no division that the "original" GNU project cannot also benefit from.

This is just another way for the community to communicate. Code that is distributed through this can still end up in the original GNU project, and vice versa. I don't really see how this is a bad thing.
@robby @libreleah @JordiGH @civodul @rbd or they publish their own sjw code of conduct nonfree license called gplv4. Can they do that? 😂😂😂
@libreleah @JordiGH @rbd @civodul Two projects based on the same code competing with one another? Worked well for gcc and egcs and the outcome was satisfactory, too.

@JordiGH @libreleah @rbd @civodul Then why not create another group entirely and fork all the apps? GGNU, GGNU IS NOT GNU? If you’re trying to commender the name, that’s just shitty.

@JordiGH @rbd @libreleah @civodul The GNU Project owns the name. Traditionally forks have a different name to distinguish them from the original: XFree86 -> Xorg, StarOffice -> OpenOffice -> LibreOffice, Gentoo -> Funtoo

@djsumdog @rbd @libreleah @civodul And who is the GNU project? Who in the GNU project decides how the name is used?

@JordiGH @rbd @libreleah @civodul The Free Software Foundation owns the GNU Project. While not a registered trademark, they would have a valid trademark cause in court if they decided to defend it.

Why don’t you go look this stuff up yourself?

@djsumdog @rbd @libreleah @civodul Because I see you haven't actually worked with the GNU project.

Stallman is the one who claims to make all the decisions. And he's a bad leader.

@djsumdog @JordiGH @civodul @libreleah @rbd It what sense this is not a registered trademark?

IANAL, but using the name „GNU” for an explicitly competing initiative looks like as blatant a violation as there can be.

@rcz @JordiGH @civodul @libreleah @rbd oh wow, it is a registered trademark. I should have searched the database instead of the FSF website. Well that settles that. This project is officially a trademark violation, as well as being just an asshole thing to do.

@libreleah @rbd @civodul "as for rms" the man defended his buddies trip to child sex slave island, called people with down syndrome "human pets", and can fuck right the hell off.

You can't stand for user freedom than cry coup when they actually make use of it.

@libreleah @rbd @civodul if they accept you so much, why do so many of the people involved in the support letter call you things like tranny, shemale, degenerate, faggot, and misgender you? is that what acceptance is to you? tolerance to your face so they can use you as a shield?
@rbd @libreleah @civodul i don't know much about the FSF, but the more i learn about what Stallman's been up to, the more i wonder how the hell they could reinstate him
@thor @rbd @civodul @libreleah
>how the hell they could reinstate him
-Unjustified punishment isn't a good image for an entity that supports freedom.
-Judging someone public thoughts (which were clearly stated to be detached from GNU/FSF since the 90s) who's on the ASD can be tricky.
https://www.wetheweb.org/post/cancel-we-the-web
https://stallmansupport.org/
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Free_as_in_Freedom_(2002)

@mangeurdenuage @thor @civodul @libreleah @rbd

He’s a weird dude for sure. The guy is extreme: doesn’t buy AmTrak tickets because they require a credit card and doesn’t support Gentoo because it make it too easy to install non-free software 🙄

…but it is that crazy autistic extreme stance on privacy and open source that has been the bulwark of actual freedom in technology. I could never be Stallman because I do like the convenience of a credit/debt card, but I understand his hard stance and even see it as necessary.

As far as things he said, some has been misrepresented and some is truly stupid. But the tenants of cancel culture means there is no apology great enough; that grace and redemption are part of judeo-christian mysticism that has no place in the ridged legality of anti-perceived-intolerantism.

and some more links of the other side of this argument:

https://whoisylvia.medium.com/richard-stallman-has-been-vilified-by-those-who-dont-know-him-a3907b25b4c7

http://techrights.org/2021/03/27/objective-look-at-phony-scandal/

https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/thread/20210402.191114.aa10dd4f.en.html

@djsumdog @mangeurdenuage @civodul @libreleah @rbd i can't find links, but the information i saw suggested that he's not just expressing controversial opinions; he's a legit sexual harrasser.

can't quote you any sources on that tho.
@thor @civodul @djsumdog @libreleah @mangeurdenuage @rbd that’s the problem. it’s hard to find any corroborating evidence other than one or two weird stories.

@icedquinn @thor @civodul @libreleah @mangeurdenuage @rbd Yea I’ve heard he’s a terrible house guest too; a story I read a while back said he showed up for a week and it took months to get rid of him, but then there’s the other story I linked that said he’s delightful for a short visit. The sign on his door at MIT was a prank by someone else and his business card, while a little odd … just makes him seem lonely more than anything.

It’s just all anecdotes too. Who knows what’s even real and not any more. If RMS had just died of COVID, we’d probably just be honouring him.

“You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain” -Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight Rises

@djsumdog @icedquinn @civodul @libreleah @mangeurdenuage @rbd @thor it's like the Michael Jackson case, if you just listened to the media all your worst fears were confirmed, you actually start digging deeper and it all falls apart

@Moon @civodul @icedquinn @libreleah @mangeurdenuage @rbd @thor :blobcatwhat: err .. that might not be the best example. The Leaving Neverland documentary is pretty chilling.

To be fair to the Jacksons, the two guys introduced zero new evidence and their family are only going off what they say. It could all be made up, but .. it’s also pretty compelling.

@thor @civodul @djsumdog @libreleah @rbd
>sexual-harassment allegations and
The url you shared only points out the false initial medium article from 2019
The "harassment" accusation was about his office at MIT on which the door was pranked with a sign saying "knight for justice (also: hot ladies)" made by student and posted on twitter.
The second "harassment" accusation was about him having a mattress in his office for him to sleep and some person on twitter said that it was creepy.
Again the issue of today's definition of such subject are distorted from reality.

>comments he made about the Jeffrey Epstein
I already shared a url to you please consider reading:
https://stallmansupport.org/explaining-events-that-led-to-stallman-resignation-csail-emails.html
@rbd @libreleah @civodul
>this cannot happen
Maybe because it is less efficient ?

>as roughly 95% of its members are white cis males
It is strange to me to be so picky about this when the OSI, IBM, RedHat and many others are exactly if not worse.

>it is already split
And by who ?

>It can only weaken Stallman's power on free software development, something I find hugely positive
If you ever have read mailing lists like say GCC you'd know that RMS has not influenced the code design of projects in decades. He only comes here and then asking random questions and the only time he's actually on something it is about licensing issues.

@libreleah @civodul And the decision to give rms a prominent role within the FSF divides, destroys the unity.

@libreleah @civodul “you can’t fork GNU!” You scream as we slowly point towards Freedoms 3 and 4 (oh, sorry, 2 and 3 if we start at 0 like RMS did in a fit of compsci pedantry)

@DissonantEevee @libreleah@mas.to @civodul They are numbered 0-3 because freedom 0 was added later. You can fork GNU, but you can't call it "GNU". I don't think the GNU Assembly is a fork of GNU.

@DissonantEevee @civodul @libreleah@mas.to wasn't formatted properly for some reason

@DissonantEevee @libreleah @civodul

The reason they are numbered 0, 1, 2 and 3 is historical. Around 1990 there were three freedoms, numbered 1, 2 and 3. Then we realized that the freedom to run the program needed to be mentioned explicitly. It was clearly more basic than the other three, so it properly should precede them. Rather than renumber the others, we made it freedom 0.

The Free Software Definition

@DissonantEevee @libreleah @civodul
Originally it was 3 freedoms numbered 1-3, the 0th was added later before the first ones because it was deemed the most fundamental.

@libreleah @civodul Feels like the FSF has decided to double down on protecting one persons reputation while alienating a great number of people. I like (liked?) GNU and the FSF obviously but this seems extremely destructive and counter to the ideals I would've expected from them 😟

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